Emergent and Emerging Church Distinction
Here is a short video post where I make my contribution to the topic floating around the blog world about the relationship of Emegent and Emergence with Emerging Church.
I suggest that Emerging Church is a subset of a large phenomena and not the point, but that Emergence is happening.
If you find this interesting I encouargage you to attend The Great Emergence Event December 5-6 in Memphis. It is going to be an excellent event.
Update – sorry for the trouble Youtube was out of sync on the sound – I thinbk I have it fixed now.
September 19th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Thanks for posting this, Doug. I guess I’ve always thought of it the other way around: ‘Emerging’ being the larger picture, while ‘Emergent,’ and specifically Emergent Village, being a smaller-subset of a larger, organic movement.
I’m half-way through Phyllis’ new book, and along with your video: things are beginning to shift around as to where/and what role Emergence has and how it has come to be. Most importantly for me, I’m interested in knowing/discovering WHERE this Emergence is taking us. I haven’t gotten that far in the book.. but as a college student who has been involved in this ‘emergence conversation’ for a couple of years and who aspires to be a ‘church planter’ as you described yourself, I have small ideas/thoughts as to how things are shaping to be. That being said, I’m rather interested in seeing where all of this is going, in Phyllis’ mind.
Thanks for posting, and thanks for clarifying!
Grace and Peace to you,
Wes
September 19th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
I hate how we tend to get hung up on terminology – we seem to always be seeking ways to form hard-walled containers for thoughts and ideas never meant to be captured. I think your re-defining of the “E-words” here is spot-on. And I think this conference/conversation in Memphis based on Phyllis’ prophetic book will be a pivotal, if not historical point in where we go from here! I will see you there!
September 21st, 2008 at 10:40 am
I agree that “Emergence” is the largest category with “emerging church” being something of a sub-set of that, but I think it is highly presumptuous to place Emergent Village as “the” network of “Emergence”, with the wider “emerging church” being an even smaller subset.
I greatly appreciate EV, but your talk of some people branding was rather disingenuous. While I know that EV did not/does not intend to be brand driven, can you really deny that branding has been a significant result, even if only by popular perception?
Of course “Emergence” and the “emerging church” are not dead/gone, though the language is slowly falling out of fashion. I think EV would better represent itself with the humility to acknowledge it’s mistakes, it’s limits and it’s important (but very specific) scope.
September 23rd, 2008 at 10:07 am
blah blah blah… it scares me that anyone would be interested in a pastor who can’t answer basic Biblical questions.
listen to the interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVnPvXqdmNg
September 23rd, 2008 at 12:07 pm
[...] McKnight started a discussion on Emerging vs. Emergent in June. Doug Pagitt does a video blog on Emerging and Emergent Church Distinction. I blogged about missional last year. It seems the current trend is toward more missional [...]
September 24th, 2008 at 7:42 am
[...] the current debates on the labels is simply this: the labels/names/brands mean very little. As Doug noted recently, and as Phyllis’s book makes abundantly clear, there are broader cultural forces at play [...]
September 24th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Emergence is the larger movement and emerging is the local process in my mind. Emergent sounds to much like so many defined theological tags to me. Ultimately the tag debate is irrelevant to articulating the passion for relevant missional engagement
September 30th, 2008 at 9:49 am
[...] The Great Emergence Event December 5-6 in Memphis. It is going to be an excellent event” (Online source). As we follow the link to The Great Emergence Event (TGEE) we’re enlightened: ‘The [...]
October 8th, 2008 at 11:27 am
[...] [update 10/8/08] Doug Pagitt on video weights in with Emergent and Emerging Church Distinction [...]
October 14th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Hmmm. Interesting take Doug. I think most people would see the Emergent Village network as a subset of the larger emerging church movement, which is itself a subset of the larger postmodern shift. I think Dan and others who are seeking to create a new network within the emerging church movement are doing so because of the theological differences they have with some in Emergent Village. I’d be interested to know why you cast that as something “smaller”? Or did I miss your point?
October 26th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
John, I almost agree with 100%. I think that’s the most I will say here as I find the “redefinition” of the reality of the place of Emergent verses the emerging church movement being offered to be a little disturbing. Say it often and maybe people will believe you? The emerging church (a general term) is a subset of Emergent (a group within the movement is somehow suppose to be larger than the movement)?
Oh well…..